The Brighton Paradox: GROWTH

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Always Possible

[00:00:05] alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:00:10] As part of the 2024 Brighton Festival,

[00:00:19] the auditorium at the Attenborough Centre,

[00:00:21] the University of Sussex's campus theatre,

[00:00:24] was turned into a community kitchen.

[00:00:26] A long and wide food preparation table

[00:00:29] that came through the audience,

[00:00:31] who were scattered around in tables in groups.

[00:00:33] And at the back, a busy team of chefs

[00:00:36] making vats of soup.

[00:00:38] It smelled great as soon as you walked in.

[00:00:42] I'd come along with my daughter

[00:00:43] on this May Sunday afternoon

[00:00:45] to see this play

[00:00:47] by the Brighton People's Theatre

[00:00:48] about questions of identity in the city.

[00:00:52] It was called Born and Bread.

[00:00:54] Into the other, into the pain

[00:00:56] Marvel, Grandpa, Ho-Won Shane

[00:00:59] Into the need, into the fire

[00:01:02] We're getting built on a government fire

[00:01:04] What I got was part musical,

[00:01:07] part workshop,

[00:01:09] part Augusto Boalian Theatre of the oppressed

[00:01:11] style performance based activism

[00:01:13] that took me back to my theatre studies A level days

[00:01:17] and a lot of funny, moving

[00:01:18] and playful stories.

[00:01:29] The cast of

[00:01:33] 20 or 30 performers

[00:01:35] must have been aged between 18 and 80.

[00:01:38] Black, white, brown, tall, short,

[00:01:40] some on wheels, some with limited English

[00:01:42] some with a distinctive Brighton accent

[00:01:44] that I always found to be a subtle hybrid

[00:01:46] of South London and traditional rural Sussex.

[00:01:50] The two hours or so show was a treat.

[00:01:53] In Syria,

[00:01:53] there is one of the Brighton Paradox.

[00:01:55] You'll remember I spoke to Naomi Alexander,

[00:01:57] the founder of Brighton People's Theatre.

[00:01:59] She talked about this show at the time

[00:02:01] as being under development.

[00:02:04] It has taken two years to write,

[00:02:06] test and rehearse with two

[00:02:07] full casts that alternate performances

[00:02:09] because none of the cast or crew are professionals,

[00:02:12] deliberately,

[00:02:14] and they have to fit the show around

[00:02:15] the rest of life.

[00:02:17] And what they created was an authentic dissection

[00:02:19] of ideas around who owns Brighton

[00:02:21] and how to belong here.

[00:02:24] I could see and hear many

[00:02:25] direct responses to the Brighton Paradox

[00:02:27] podcast project in the dialogue

[00:02:29] and even in the set and props,

[00:02:31] especially an homage to episode two

[00:02:34] of the first series

[00:02:35] when the audience were given lanterns

[00:02:37] embossed with the hail guest

[00:02:38] we ask not what thou art

[00:02:40] welcome from the Brighton pylons

[00:02:42] as proposed by Caroline Lucas

[00:02:44] as one of her favourite things about the city.

[00:02:47] I mention this experience of going to see this play

[00:02:49] because it captured something new for me

[00:02:51] that I hadn't been a part of before.

[00:02:54] Born and bred

[00:02:55] was a story about Brighton's growth

[00:02:57] in the 21st century.

[00:03:00] Not about the economy

[00:03:01] getting bigger growth,

[00:03:03] but about the changing communities

[00:03:05] and how people show up in the city.

[00:03:08] About the city

[00:03:09] maybe, slowly

[00:03:11] becoming more confident in its own skin

[00:03:13] about the tribes and cultures

[00:03:15] and ideas that settle in the city

[00:03:17] shaping it

[00:03:18] despite it being messy, difficult and uneven.

[00:03:22] It was about the city

[00:03:23] looking outwards and up

[00:03:25] and coping

[00:03:26] with the pandemic and austerity causing long-term damage

[00:03:29] yes

[00:03:30] but about the resilience

[00:03:32] and the city's collective obsession

[00:03:34] with questioning everything

[00:03:35] and getting in its own way

[00:03:37] maybe being a strength

[00:03:39] a shared commitment to continually doing better

[00:03:43] and most importantly

[00:03:44] a city that's no longer simply telling everyone

[00:03:47] that it's the greatest place to be yourself

[00:03:50] and then failing to deliver on it

[00:03:52] but instead one that is actually

[00:03:54] trying to be the greatest place to be yourself

[00:03:57] but with more honesty

[00:03:58] that there's not a level playing field

[00:04:01] for some people it won't be easy

[00:04:03] but we can work with that

[00:04:04] and we can try harder.

[00:04:09] I've called this last episode of this series

[00:04:11] growth

[00:04:13] and I'm unapologetic about that

[00:04:14] and I'll explain what I mean shortly

[00:04:16] I know it's a complicated word

[00:04:18] in Brighton and Hove in 2024

[00:04:20] because it's a complicated word

[00:04:22] across the UK, across the world

[00:04:25] but let's not be shy about it

[00:04:28] I'm Richard Freeman

[00:04:29] and I'm considering what it means

[00:04:31] to grow in the Brighton Paradox

[00:04:48] This is a podcast investigation from

[00:04:50] Always Possible and Lo-Fi Arts

[00:04:52] supported by Brighton and Hove Albion Football Club

[00:04:55] It has created and partnership

[00:04:57] with EQ investors, midnight communications

[00:04:59] and the University of Brighton's

[00:05:00] Help to Grow Management program

[00:05:03] Episode 4

[00:05:05] Growth

[00:05:07] So a few years ago

[00:05:08] I tried to draw a picture because I love drawing pictures

[00:05:11] I tried to draw a picture

[00:05:12] of the world that we want to live in

[00:05:14] and it, silly though it sounds

[00:05:16] it came out looking like a donut

[00:05:17] American one with a hole in the middle

[00:05:19] So imagine a donut, there's the outside

[00:05:21] and then there's the inside and there's that hole in the middle

[00:05:23] In the hole in the middle

[00:05:25] that's a space of deprivation

[00:05:27] a space of shortfall where people don't have

[00:05:29] the resources to meet the essentials of life

[00:05:31] like they don't have enough food or education

[00:05:34] they don't have access to electricity

[00:05:35] enough income, they don't have decent housing

[00:05:37] so it's a space of shortfall

[00:05:39] and we want to get people out of that hole in the middle

[00:05:41] into the donut

[00:05:42] but we want to do that for the whole world

[00:05:45] making sure that we also don't go beyond

[00:05:47] the donuts out of crust

[00:05:49] because that's a space of ecological overshoot

[00:05:51] where humanity puts more pressure

[00:05:54] on the planet than the planet can take

[00:05:55] and we start causing climate change

[00:05:57] or massive loss of biodiversity

[00:05:59] we start creating a hole in the ozone layer

[00:06:02] or polluting earth with chemicals

[00:06:03] that we add to it

[00:06:04] So we need to both get people out

[00:06:07] of deprivation and poverty

[00:06:09] but also protect earth

[00:06:11] and protect these fundamental

[00:06:13] life-supporting systems that keep us alive

[00:06:15] those are the two sides of human well-being

[00:06:17] the inside and the outside of the donut

[00:06:19] and the 21st century challenge is a unique one

[00:06:21] it's to get everybody out of poverty

[00:06:23] while coming back in at the same time

[00:06:26] that's never been taken on before

[00:06:28] and that's partly why we need to rewrite economics

[00:06:30] because it's a completely new way of looking

[00:06:32] at what human well-being is

[00:06:35] That was Kate Rayworth

[00:06:37] explaining her theory of donut economics

[00:06:39] on YouTube

[00:06:40] her model has become my bible

[00:06:42] in so many ways

[00:06:43] as an economist

[00:06:46] she's become a powerful voice

[00:06:47] in social and business thinking in the 2020s

[00:06:50] and at the crux of her argument

[00:06:52] is the idea that we should not

[00:06:54] seek to grow

[00:06:55] but instead to thrive

[00:06:58] some are in fact arguing for degrowth

[00:07:01] and that successive

[00:07:02] governments obsession with growing the size

[00:07:04] of the pie rather than making

[00:07:06] access to the resources and wealth

[00:07:08] within the pie fairer

[00:07:09] is the root cause of poverty

[00:07:11] climate change, displacement

[00:07:14] and every structural failure that we see

[00:07:16] around us

[00:07:16] and in Brighton this debate is raging

[00:07:19] right now more than ever

[00:07:22] The truth is that

[00:07:23] economic inequality is holding

[00:07:25] the city and the country back

[00:07:27] and that the distribution of resources

[00:07:29] and opportunity especially in somewhere

[00:07:31] so small like Brighton-Hove

[00:07:33] is baffling

[00:07:35] but it's also true

[00:07:36] that this city

[00:07:37] is lagging behind many others in terms of investment

[00:07:40] well paid jobs, affordable housing

[00:07:42] and permanent infrastructure

[00:07:44] so I'm thinking ostensibly

[00:07:47] and maybe controversially

[00:07:49] can growing and thriving

[00:07:52] be the same thing

[00:07:53] can we grow laterally

[00:07:55] as well as vertically

[00:07:57] so that the pie is both bigger

[00:07:59] and fairer

[00:08:01] as the political direction of the UK

[00:08:03] over the next decade is almost certainly going to be

[00:08:06] growth, growth, growth

[00:08:07] that will be the narrative

[00:08:09] how does this chime with a city

[00:08:11] often uneasy with the word

[00:08:14] in my interviews

[00:08:15] I've been struck by the people making very reasonable

[00:08:17] cases for growth in Brighton-Hove

[00:08:20] and it's more nuanced

[00:08:22] than a speech you might hear from a politician

[00:08:25] and there is a thoughtfulness

[00:08:27] coming from those even those close

[00:08:29] to the levers of power

[00:08:31] this is Gavin Stewart

[00:08:32] who heads up both the business improvement district

[00:08:35] and the city's economic partnership

[00:08:38] there are huge

[00:08:40] kind of endemic problems within the city

[00:08:42] that we're never really going to be able to

[00:08:44] deal with unless we focus on them

[00:08:46] there's a couple of examples actually

[00:08:47] so the gender pay gap

[00:08:50] and this will make sense in a moment I hope

[00:08:52] is an issue for us

[00:08:54] Brighton-Hove

[00:08:55] so here we are, two white men sitting in a room

[00:08:58] talking about the issues

[00:09:00] within the local economy

[00:09:01] we've got the platform

[00:09:03] and we've got the space to do that

[00:09:05] and I absolutely recognise that privilege 100%

[00:09:09] looking at just the disparities within the city

[00:09:12] so yes, the gender pay gap

[00:09:13] the gender pay gap in Brighton-Hove

[00:09:16] is actually starting to increase

[00:09:17] as opposed to decrease

[00:09:19] there are disparities in the city which are

[00:09:21] growing all the time

[00:09:23] we're actually becoming more polarised

[00:09:25] in many ways as the city

[00:09:27] we're not really coming together

[00:09:29] paying the city actually is bad

[00:09:31] it's dropping below the national average

[00:09:32] but the gender pay gap, as I just said

[00:09:34] is getting bigger and bigger

[00:09:35] if you're a man, your average salary is

[00:09:38] about £36,000 if you're a woman

[00:09:40] it's something like £31,000

[00:09:43] it's important we talk about these things

[00:09:45] because employers

[00:09:46] whether or not they are aware

[00:09:49] that there's a gender pay gap in their organisations

[00:09:51] or not, it's important that people have

[00:09:53] this idea in their mind

[00:09:54] but again, that's one level of polarisation

[00:09:57] which is happening and then when you start to

[00:09:59] put intersections into that

[00:10:00] it just gets worse so if you are

[00:10:03] say you're a two female household

[00:10:05] in the city, you're going to be getting paid less

[00:10:07] than a two male household in the city

[00:10:09] if you're a two female household in the city

[00:10:11] and one of you happens to be a person of colour

[00:10:13] then you're likely to be getting paid less

[00:10:15] again on that if one of you is disabled

[00:10:17] as well, once the intersections start coming

[00:10:19] into play, those things

[00:10:21] get much, much worse

[00:10:23] I took from what Gavin was saying

[00:10:25] that no economic strategy for growth will

[00:10:27] work unless we address the fundamental

[00:10:29] structures that underpin how

[00:10:31] and whether Brighton can thrive

[00:10:33] in the 2020s and beyond

[00:10:36] there's no point

[00:10:37] ensuring everyone simply gets paid

[00:10:39] more if there are still huge gaps

[00:10:41] between who intrinsically gets

[00:10:43] more pay when it has nothing to do

[00:10:45] with merit, skill or responsibility

[00:10:48] and by that I mean men

[00:10:49] I genuinely don't know anyone who is advocating

[00:10:53] for growth in the city

[00:10:54] who doesn't see it as something that benefits everyone

[00:10:58] but we know the system is rigged

[00:11:00] towards white, socially mobile, able-bodied men

[00:11:03] can Brighton engineer it differently?

[00:11:07] at the moment, Brighton's employment

[00:11:09] is dominated by micro and small businesses

[00:11:11] the self-employed and the public sector

[00:11:14] so we need to start by being honest, don't we?

[00:11:16] that in reality if you want to earn any decent money

[00:11:19] whatever your background

[00:11:20] then you've got to work outside of the city

[00:11:23] I think it's a really interesting thing for us

[00:11:26] to be talking about actually

[00:11:27] because I'm not sure there is one specific answer to it

[00:11:30] so when you look at the whole economy

[00:11:33] it's big in Brighton

[00:11:35] but something like 9.7 billion or something

[00:11:37] we're all around about that and that's huge

[00:11:39] we are accountable for one in every three jobs

[00:11:42] in the city region

[00:11:44] so if you're living in a hinterland of Brighton

[00:11:47] this is where you want to come

[00:11:48] so this is where you're going to get a job essentially

[00:11:52] now, within that local economy

[00:11:55] although it is big

[00:11:56] about two thirds of our low wage economy

[00:11:59] so about a third of it

[00:12:00] don't pick me up too much on this

[00:12:02] I'll make such a take to that

[00:12:04] but a third of it is public sector

[00:12:07] which is inherently low wage

[00:12:10] largely unless you're at the top of the tree

[00:12:13] but there's not that many people at the top of the tree

[00:12:15] you're mostly one of the workers

[00:12:17] and then the next third

[00:12:20] really is hospitality retail

[00:12:21] leisure sector and tourism sector

[00:12:24] again historically a very low paid sector

[00:12:27] and yeah, you're absolutely right

[00:12:28] that last bit, that last third

[00:12:31] is the higher value added wage economy

[00:12:34] so it's the financial services sector

[00:12:36] it's the digital services sector

[00:12:39] football, yes absolutely the sports core sector as well

[00:12:42] so we've got this big economy

[00:12:44] but within that balloon

[00:12:45] two thirds of it is really low wage

[00:12:49] how do we then ratify that down

[00:12:52] are those women that are working

[00:12:55] are they mostly then working

[00:12:56] within that large two thirds wage economy as you say

[00:13:00] and few of them are working

[00:13:02] in the higher value added third

[00:13:06] I don't know, I don't have the data for that

[00:13:10] is what people listen to this

[00:13:11] screaming now, going actually not

[00:13:13] working in the crazy digital sector

[00:13:16] I don't know what you're talking about

[00:13:19] well I think it's not to say it's not getting better

[00:13:21] it certainly is and there's concerted efforts

[00:13:23] but the reason there's concerted efforts

[00:13:25] is because historically it's been poor

[00:13:27] yes, completely, absolutely

[00:13:29] and there's also, as a society

[00:13:32] have we really moved out

[00:13:34] from those gender stereotypes

[00:13:36] of the women looking after the children

[00:13:37] and the husband and the grown partner

[00:13:40] going away to work

[00:13:41] we'd like to think that we have

[00:13:43] but maybe we haven't

[00:13:45] maybe more people now look for part-time

[00:13:47] one of the things I remember

[00:13:49] from years ago people talking about Brighton & Hove

[00:13:52] as being the place where they actually

[00:13:54] something's come to retire

[00:13:55] or at least go to work part-time

[00:13:59] so we've got this thing where

[00:14:03] we're a really fun, cool, funky, exciting

[00:14:05] eclectic place to be

[00:14:06] but who wants to work at Brighton & Hove

[00:14:08] but they're in that scenario tonight

[00:14:10] so actually there's a

[00:14:11] there is a different, there's a

[00:14:13] disruptive nature to what our economy looks like here

[00:14:17] and how people want to work in it

[00:14:18] and how they approach it as well

[00:14:20] so I think there's a whole load of different things

[00:14:23] that play really within that

[00:14:25] within that question

[00:14:26] and I'm not entirely sure we'll ever get

[00:14:28] to the bottom of the answer

[00:14:29] other than for businesses and employers

[00:14:32] to be aware that we are in this position

[00:14:34] at the moment where that gender pay gap

[00:14:37] is increasing

[00:14:37] and when they are

[00:14:40] employing people just to be cognisant of that

[00:14:43] ultimately and not just think that it's something

[00:14:45] which just magically will solve itself

[00:14:49] It's not going to solve itself

[00:14:53] so I wanted to explore the Brighton economy

[00:14:56] from the perspective of those who are trying to solve it

[00:14:59] those who see growth as not only a good thing

[00:15:02] but as non-negotiable

[00:15:05] but not through some blunt treasury definition

[00:15:07] of GDP or GVA per hour

[00:15:10] but maybe more akin to Kate Rayworth's concept of thriving

[00:15:14] Growth of confidence and place

[00:15:16] as I saw presented in the show Born and Bread

[00:15:20] Growth in distribution of opportunity and access

[00:15:23] as we looked at with Curtis James

[00:15:25] and Kevin Smith earlier in this series

[00:15:28] and growth in resources, wealth, investment

[00:15:31] well paid and meaningful jobs

[00:15:33] as something that is owned

[00:15:35] and taken seriously and fought for

[00:15:38] Let's meet Alex

[00:15:40] Young by name

[00:15:42] and Young by nature

[00:15:43] My name is Alex Young

[00:15:45] and I'm the director of projects

[00:15:47] We have two shared workspaces in Brighton

[00:15:50] comprising around 50,000 square foot

[00:15:52] across both of them

[00:15:54] and for people that don't work in square foot

[00:15:56] it's easier to represent that

[00:15:58] in the number of people that use our spaces

[00:15:59] so we have around a thousand people that use both of our workspaces

[00:16:03] on a regular basis

[00:16:04] and many more that come in for meetings

[00:16:08] or to use our event spaces

[00:16:10] or to collaborate with us in some way

[00:16:12] Alex was born in the year I first moved to Brighton

[00:16:15] which is a stark reminder of how rapidly

[00:16:17] I am staring into the inevitable abyss of age

[00:16:20] and even more irritatingly

[00:16:22] she's impressive, clear, ambitious

[00:16:25] and considered in her approach to business

[00:16:30] I am super excited about

[00:16:32] what the future could entail

[00:16:34] As I told you before we were recording

[00:16:37] I'm doing an MBA at Imperial

[00:16:39] and I'll be learning much more about business

[00:16:43] than I have from trial and error

[00:16:45] I'll actually be learning the academia behind

[00:16:49] growth plans and acquisitions

[00:16:51] and all that fun stuff

[00:16:53] I'm doing a lot of algebra at the moment

[00:16:54] which is interesting

[00:16:56] and I have to say age 27

[00:16:57] I didn't think I'd be spending my disposable income

[00:17:00] on maths tutoring

[00:17:01] but here we are

[00:17:02] and I think it's a worthwhile investment

[00:17:04] so I'm really dedicated

[00:17:06] to making sure that I don't just use

[00:17:09] what I'm learning as the cap

[00:17:12] on my progression

[00:17:14] I want to learn from people globally

[00:17:16] and from experts

[00:17:19] Projects have two very smart buildings

[00:17:21] in the Brighton lanes

[00:17:22] The big one on Nile Street

[00:17:24] maybe feels a bit more shoreditch than Sussex

[00:17:27] effortlessly cool and populated by people

[00:17:29] with nice haircuts

[00:17:30] a five-story, 7 million pound redevelopment

[00:17:33] of events and office space for about 800 people

[00:17:37] but when you scratch beneath the surface

[00:17:39] you do see something really interesting

[00:17:42] Alex is certainly open minded

[00:17:44] about growth in Brighton

[00:17:46] she talks about building more confident links

[00:17:48] between Brighton and London

[00:17:50] and in how there really is big commercial opportunity

[00:17:53] in professional spaces like this

[00:17:56] but Alex's plan for growth

[00:17:57] is rooted in the new economy of purpose

[00:18:00] an ethic driven enterprise

[00:18:03] she was invited onto BBC's The One Show

[00:18:05] to talk about autism friendly work environments

[00:18:08] and the tenants in the project

[00:18:10] are a heady mix of charities

[00:18:12] and social enterprises

[00:18:13] as much as they are the more inevitable

[00:18:15] tech start-ups

[00:18:17] I put it to her

[00:18:17] that maybe there's a bit of a perception divide

[00:18:20] between jaded old windbags like me

[00:18:22] who find it hard to see past the structural problems in Brighton

[00:18:27] and the new wave of entrepreneurs like her

[00:18:29] who are pragmatically optimistic

[00:18:31] and actually starting to change things

[00:18:34] and are thinking a bit bigger

[00:18:36] Well thank you

[00:18:37] I would find it hard to accept that

[00:18:40] but I know how much you know about the city

[00:18:42] so I'm going to take that as a massive compliment

[00:18:44] and not disagree with you

[00:18:47] it is challenging

[00:18:50] because of some of the things that you've

[00:18:51] touched upon really briefly there

[00:18:53] there are people that are quite stuck in their ways

[00:18:56] and there's also a lot of disparity

[00:18:59] between the new generation

[00:19:02] people that have moved down from London

[00:19:04] or elsewhere

[00:19:06] an older generation

[00:19:08] and a lot of the time

[00:19:10] I also find that people's expectations

[00:19:12] of what should be happening in Brighton

[00:19:14] what's normal for Brighton hold us back

[00:19:16] so I think we're in a really pivotal moment

[00:19:20] having come out of the pandemic

[00:19:21] and we're now in a place where there's a lot of opportunity

[00:19:26] we need to make sure that we are all working together

[00:19:29] to put this city on the map

[00:19:30] as a place where serious business can be done

[00:19:33] will be done and will be respected

[00:19:35] not just of Brighton but nationally and globally

[00:19:38] and I think it's really important

[00:19:41] that we all believe that we have an impact

[00:19:44] and we have a part to play in this

[00:19:45] so it's things from my role in particular

[00:19:49] making sure that I can help connect the businesses

[00:19:51] that are in Brighton using our spaces

[00:19:54] not just with one other

[00:19:55] but with local and then wider national partners

[00:20:01] that I know can help them accelerate what they're doing

[00:20:04] I have to make sure that I'm not just thinking

[00:20:06] with a Brighton lens on

[00:20:09] that doesn't make sense

[00:20:10] Brighton hat maybe

[00:20:12] it's really important that I'm not just thinking about Brighton

[00:20:14] but also important that I'm not ignoring the fact

[00:20:17] that we are in this city and there are nuances

[00:20:20] and if we're just suddenly launching to a global

[00:20:24] or whatever kind of mindset

[00:20:26] and we ignore the problems that we have right on our doors

[00:20:28] then we're only going to get so far

[00:20:31] I just think there's a lot going on

[00:20:33] and we can all make sure that we are driving

[00:20:37] positive change in the city

[00:20:38] by thinking about every action that we take

[00:20:42] and how we can improve the lives of our teams

[00:20:45] our partners and also the city as a whole

[00:20:49] really, really little things

[00:20:51] from making sure that we don't expect things for free

[00:20:55] and want to do things like on a

[00:20:58] on a contrary deal basis

[00:20:59] just because we're one Brighton company

[00:21:02] having another Brighton company

[00:21:03] and there's definitely a time and a place for discounts

[00:21:05] or supporting each other

[00:21:07] if that is beneficial in the long run

[00:21:11] but I think a lot of the time

[00:21:13] we are getting ourselves stuck in a loop of underpaying

[00:21:16] because we're just a local tight-knit community

[00:21:20] that aren't necessarily pushing to raise revenue

[00:21:23] and use profit as a main motivating factor

[00:21:26] I'm absolutely not saying that profit is the be-all and end-all

[00:21:31] but profit is hugely important for us as a city

[00:21:35] I think we all need to be thinking about

[00:21:37] how we can make sure that we're paying people fairly

[00:21:41] because rent is so expensive

[00:21:43] the price of food has obviously gone up

[00:21:44] the cost of living is...

[00:21:46] I don't want to use that time

[00:21:47] because we're all so tired of it

[00:21:49] but it's a real issue

[00:21:50] and you only have to look around the city

[00:21:52] to realise how hard it's hitting some people

[00:21:54] and we will genuinely all play a part in making sure

[00:21:58] that that isn't something which continues

[00:22:00] and in a negative spiral

[00:22:02] I think it's very easy to look at the news

[00:22:04] and judge the government

[00:22:05] and rightly so

[00:22:07] think that it's something which is a problem

[00:22:09] which is a lot bigger than us

[00:22:10] but we all can make a difference

[00:22:13] Alex said we need to make sure that we are all working together

[00:22:16] to put this city on the map

[00:22:17] as a place where serious business can be done

[00:22:20] will be done and will be respected

[00:22:24] I wanted to explore that a bit further

[00:22:27] because it chimes with the theme that we explored in episode 2

[00:22:30] that of impatience

[00:22:31] and that there's a strong energy that I'm finding and hearing

[00:22:34] where people are tired of being put in a box

[00:22:37] that says small, quirky, frivolous

[00:22:40] and this needs to be said, cheap

[00:22:44] Brighton and Hove is the least affordable place to live

[00:22:47] in the whole of the UK outside of London

[00:22:51] yet despite it also being the most educated place

[00:22:54] in the UK outside of Oxford and Cambridge

[00:22:56] the average salaries are lower

[00:22:58] than Coventry, Reading, Crawley, Maidstone, Tumbridge Wells

[00:23:04] the average salary in Brighton is only fractionally higher

[00:23:08] than any spawn

[00:23:09] and the East Sussex region as a whole

[00:23:11] has the lowest salaries of anywhere in the South East

[00:23:14] apart from the Isle of Wight

[00:23:16] so we need some profitable businesses, right?

[00:23:19] so that we can pay people properly

[00:23:21] but to have the growth needed for this

[00:23:23] there has to be more of this respect that Alex talks about

[00:23:28] in series 1 we settled on Brighton's unique selling point

[00:23:31] as being the UK's laboratory

[00:23:32] where unusual, interdisciplinary and innovative things

[00:23:36] can happen first

[00:23:37] but let's be frank

[00:23:38] are people now questioning that

[00:23:40] if they don't think they're ever going to make any money?

[00:23:43] so I haven't done business in the city

[00:23:45] but sort of living in the city

[00:23:48] I don't want to be negative about the city

[00:23:50] because it's always got such a sort of positive energy

[00:23:52] but there are certain things that don't change

[00:23:55] you'll remember Rose Tai from episode 1

[00:23:58] a convener of the Brighton AI Network

[00:24:00] and an experienced corporate tech product expert

[00:24:03] who's only recently since the pandemic

[00:24:05] started to look differently

[00:24:07] at the city she used to commute away from

[00:24:10] tech is the answer for Brighton, she says

[00:24:13] but in wider ways than just growing the tech businesses

[00:24:18] you could always see that there was so much goodwill

[00:24:21] but that goodwill wasn't necessarily evident

[00:24:24] if you weren't involved in those programs

[00:24:26] so I guess it's a bit of an outsider sitting on the train

[00:24:29] until I was more involved in the city on a day-to-day basis

[00:24:33] and sort of working from here

[00:24:35] those initiatives weren't evident to me

[00:24:38] I think having listened to the Brighton paradox

[00:24:44] it sort of made sense why all this amazing stuff was happening

[00:24:47] and maybe on one hand I wasn't hearing about it

[00:24:51] but on the other hand

[00:24:52] maybe it was a sort of promotion and PR failure in a way

[00:24:57] we just aren't good at sort of talking about what we do

[00:25:01] I think what it did when we were thinking about Brighton AI

[00:25:04] and how you could have lasting impact

[00:25:06] it just gave some pointers as to the realities

[00:25:10] in the city and in the community

[00:25:13] that you have to work with

[00:25:16] you know the nature of the industries growing up

[00:25:19] from the 90s onwards in digital

[00:25:23] some of those are going to be sort of seriously disrupted

[00:25:25] particularly by generative AI

[00:25:28] this idea of collective action

[00:25:30] but a lot of sort of individualism at the same time

[00:25:33] and you can already see that within the communities

[00:25:37] that you're working with

[00:25:39] so how do you bring those together

[00:25:41] and I think the notion of all boats rise

[00:25:44] is basically it should be the goal

[00:25:47] that we shouldn't be fighting growth

[00:25:51] and making money

[00:25:53] we need to attract more money into the city

[00:25:57] we're at a disadvantage

[00:25:59] because we're in the southeast

[00:26:01] that's not necessarily where

[00:26:03] a lot of the government levelling up money is going

[00:26:07] so we need to find ways of attracting investment

[00:26:11] into the initiatives that we want in the city

[00:26:14] I think the other thing that sort of stuck with me

[00:26:16] was just the population question

[00:26:19] if we are not attracting young families down

[00:26:23] if graduates aren't staying

[00:26:26] so if graduates aren't staying

[00:26:27] that's a really interesting indicator

[00:26:29] so if people are leaving university degrees in the city

[00:26:33] and they're not staying in this city

[00:26:36] which is an amazing place to live

[00:26:37] you've got to sort of take that

[00:26:39] as the sort of canary in the coal mine

[00:26:42] and say well why is that

[00:26:44] and then you look at the jobs

[00:26:46] that are available here in the salaries

[00:26:50] and that's kind of that

[00:26:52] that's the sort of the problem that you need to solve

[00:26:55] we need to be attracting well paid jobs

[00:26:59] that will retain graduates in the city

[00:27:02] then actually AI gives us a fabulous opportunity

[00:27:05] to create new economies

[00:27:08] there will be new business models

[00:27:09] there'll be new jobs

[00:27:12] and we want to be the epicentre of that

[00:27:15] Paul Doran the marketing and tech entrepreneur

[00:27:18] who has also only recently turned his attention

[00:27:20] to the Brighton ecosystem

[00:27:21] after years of living here but working elsewhere

[00:27:25] agrees that the impatient energy

[00:27:27] is driving some new change

[00:27:29] but paradoxically we need to accept

[00:27:32] that this will take some time

[00:27:34] he's also challenged my obsession

[00:27:36] with cross sector collaboration

[00:27:38] and interestingly in recording a series 2

[00:27:41] he's not the only one

[00:27:43] knowledge and connectivity is important

[00:27:45] and I'll come back to something I've been developing with Paul

[00:27:48] as a legacy of the Brighton paradox

[00:27:50] but he says we can't wait for everyone

[00:27:52] to be ready at the same time

[00:27:54] and as Rose says

[00:27:55] all boats rising with the tide

[00:27:57] should be the goal

[00:27:59] but that will take individual driving forces

[00:28:01] to make the waves

[00:28:03] and as we explore in episode 1

[00:28:06] the leadership probably isn't coming

[00:28:08] from a person

[00:28:09] it is coming from clusters

[00:28:11] groups and mycelium style underground networks

[00:28:15] that are willing to test stuff

[00:28:16] see what works

[00:28:17] and then grow it

[00:28:19] if I think back to my time

[00:28:21] in Silicon roundabout

[00:28:24] there were very successful clusters

[00:28:25] in fashion tech

[00:28:27] and the FinTechs were over here

[00:28:29] out in Canary Wharf

[00:28:30] and the designers were in

[00:28:33] west of Old Street

[00:28:35] around Clarkham Island

[00:28:37] I don't think we need to force ourselves all together

[00:28:40] I think that we need to be patient with the city

[00:28:42] I do think

[00:28:44] there is a role for

[00:28:47] support from government

[00:28:48] that the council need

[00:28:51] to provide services and infrastructure

[00:28:53] that is going to allow

[00:28:54] these businesses

[00:28:56] these organisations to thrive

[00:28:59] I don't think there's necessarily a silver bullet

[00:29:01] you and I have spoken about

[00:29:03] connectivity

[00:29:04] and communication

[00:29:06] and I think

[00:29:08] bringing a coherent

[00:29:10] place for people to understand

[00:29:12] everything that's going on

[00:29:14] I feel quite privileged through this process

[00:29:16] that I've got a better insight

[00:29:18] into the arts that are going on

[00:29:20] the third sector

[00:29:21] the charities and the organisations

[00:29:23] that exist in the city

[00:29:25] it's phenomenal

[00:29:26] I wouldn't have discovered those things

[00:29:28] I think if we can create

[00:29:30] some mediums

[00:29:32] that allow people to scratch

[00:29:34] under the surface and get a sense

[00:29:36] of what is going on

[00:29:37] I don't think that can do any harm

[00:29:40] how we do that I think is

[00:29:41] to be determined

[00:29:43] it's probably a private initiative

[00:29:45] it's probably not going to come from top down

[00:29:47] let's run some experiments

[00:29:48] let's build something lean

[00:29:50] and see how we can connect people

[00:29:52] and see where that goes

[00:29:54] if it doesn't work it doesn't work

[00:29:56] but more than ever there does feel like

[00:29:58] there's that attitude

[00:30:00] to do things differently

[00:30:02] let's take a quick break

[00:30:04] and let's see whether growth

[00:30:05] really is a dirty word in some other sectors in the city

[00:30:08] that are also walking the tightrope

[00:30:10] of social change

[00:30:12] and economic stability

[00:30:21] hello producer Chris here

[00:30:23] just a quick moment

[00:30:24] to say a huge thanks to

[00:30:26] the Brighton Paradox Headline Sponsor

[00:30:29] Brighton and Hove Albion Football Club

[00:30:31] they've been a generous

[00:30:33] and thoughtful partner to this project

[00:30:34] from the beginning

[00:30:36] known for their community spirit and leadership

[00:30:38] as well as their evolving role

[00:30:39] as one of the most exciting squads in the English Premier League

[00:30:43] and Women's Super League

[00:30:44] the club has significantly

[00:30:46] contributed to the greater Brighton economy

[00:30:48] injecting £600 million

[00:30:50] during the 2022-23 season

[00:30:53] to find out more

[00:30:55] about how they're investing in the city

[00:30:57] visit BrightonandHoveAlbion.com

[00:31:00] we're also supported for the first time

[00:31:03] by EQ Investors

[00:31:05] a financial advisory firm

[00:31:06] committed to sustainable and impact investing

[00:31:09] they help individuals, families

[00:31:11] and charities align their investments

[00:31:13] with their values

[00:31:14] ensuring financial growth and positive

[00:31:16] social impact work hand in hand

[00:31:19] with Hove being home to their

[00:31:21] only office outside of London

[00:31:22] they're a key part of Brighton and Hove's

[00:31:25] responsible growth over the coming decades

[00:31:27] learn more about their services

[00:31:29] and their B course status

[00:31:31] at EQinvestors.co.uk

[00:31:35] Additionally, the University of Brighton's

[00:31:38] Help to Grow Management program

[00:31:40] is empowering local businesses

[00:31:42] to unlock their full potential

[00:31:43] this 12-week business school

[00:31:45] management course

[00:31:47] offers leadership training, digital adoption

[00:31:49] growth strategy and more

[00:31:51] supported by one-to-one

[00:31:53] mentoring and a network

[00:31:55] of local business peers

[00:31:57] and what's more 90% of it is funded by

[00:31:59] government

[00:32:01] spaces are limited so check out

[00:32:03] how to apply at Brighton.ac.uk

[00:32:06] searching for Help to Grow

[00:32:09] we couldn't make this series without

[00:32:11] their help or from other

[00:32:13] project supporters listed in the show notes

[00:32:30] there's really only one way in which we help people

[00:32:32] drive forward economic development and social innovation

[00:32:35] we're Sussex born and bred

[00:32:36] but work across the UK and sometimes

[00:32:38] further to design and deliver big projects

[00:32:41] projects that promote social mobility

[00:32:43] digital transformation and equality

[00:32:44] of opportunity and business culture

[00:32:46] and education projects that tell the

[00:32:48] story of growth and creative thinking

[00:32:50] in cities, sectors and communities

[00:32:52] projects that enable emerging leaders

[00:32:55] as well as big brands to define

[00:32:56] measure and communicate their impact

[00:32:58] we work with teams who know that their

[00:33:00] mission is a bit braver and a bit more

[00:33:02] ambitious than others if that sounds

[00:33:04] like you then we need to meet

[00:33:06] come say hello at alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:33:10] that's alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:33:14] you met my son in the last episode

[00:33:16] the 10 year old Linus

[00:33:18] who declared that he had very few interests

[00:33:20] and that Brighton was too dirty for him

[00:33:21] well I had

[00:33:24] another go with my daughter

[00:33:26] she's 15 and her name is Nell

[00:33:28] she was born in a flat near Preston Park

[00:33:31] at the height of the big financial crisis

[00:33:33] but she spent the last 10 years

[00:33:35] in Worthing

[00:33:36] maybe her insights could be a big clue

[00:33:38] into how young people think about the

[00:33:40] future Brighton and Hove

[00:33:42] as a place of growth and opportunity

[00:33:44] my name is Nell and I do not consent

[00:33:46] to being on this podcast if you are hearing this

[00:33:48] I will file a

[00:33:50] lawsuit against you

[00:33:52] hmm get the voice of young people they said

[00:33:54] they are the future they said

[00:33:56] ok her sense of humour is very dry

[00:33:58] don't worry you are not going to be sued

[00:34:00] I blame her mum

[00:34:02] well yeah it's not like

[00:34:04] when I hear the word Brighton I am like

[00:34:05] oh that's my birthplace I am literally

[00:34:07] brighter than myself

[00:34:08] I don't think anybody does really

[00:34:11] maybe if you are from somewhere with

[00:34:13] like that you spent a lot of time

[00:34:15] and you go back to a lot and you have got family

[00:34:17] but we don't really have any family there anymore

[00:34:19] it's just a city

[00:34:22] to Nell

[00:34:23] Brighton mainly represents

[00:34:25] Primark, Churchill Square

[00:34:27] and some venues for cultural experiences

[00:34:29] I like shopping

[00:34:31] and buying books and looking at books

[00:34:34] in the summer when everyone is out

[00:34:37] and stuff and it's like warm

[00:34:38] it can feel nice and like

[00:34:40] relaxing but then it's also a bit dirty

[00:34:43] and grubby and like really busy

[00:34:45] the beach especially

[00:34:47] it's a good school in Worthing

[00:34:48] do you think your friends perceive Brighton

[00:34:51] as a big city where there is opportunity

[00:34:53] somewhere they might go and

[00:34:54] start their career

[00:34:56] is that still somewhere else?

[00:34:58] is that someone like London?

[00:35:01] I don't know

[00:35:02] I've definitely never heard anyone say

[00:35:04] oh yeah to start my career I am going to go

[00:35:06] to Brighton because there is lots of opportunity there

[00:35:08] I have never heard that at school

[00:35:10] I have only heard that people go to Brighton

[00:35:13] for the shopping

[00:35:14] because obviously we are all 14 year old girls

[00:35:16] and then my friend said

[00:35:18] that Brighton was boring so I don't know

[00:35:20] if she wants to go there

[00:35:23] so there is no chat about it

[00:35:25] as a place to

[00:35:27] have experiences

[00:35:28] and get your first job

[00:35:30] and go to gigs

[00:35:33] and things

[00:35:34] no we just go there for the town centre

[00:35:36] and the laser tag

[00:35:39] well I don't go for the laser tag

[00:35:41] but other people do because

[00:35:42] it's more fun than here

[00:35:45] because we have nothing here

[00:35:50] as Rose Tai said to me

[00:35:51] whether Brighton is attractive

[00:35:53] and exciting to young people

[00:35:55] is a bit like the Canary in the coal mine

[00:35:57] it's a litmus test of how well

[00:35:59] the city is thriving

[00:36:02] in series 1

[00:36:03] I explored what it was like to grow up

[00:36:05] during Brighton's 90s and 90s renaissance

[00:36:07] when it was always on TV

[00:36:08] it was talked about, it was the place

[00:36:10] in which anything can happen

[00:36:13] now I am aware that my children are not

[00:36:15] wholly representative or the most

[00:36:17] worldly wise

[00:36:18] but they really do struggle

[00:36:20] to get excited about Brighton

[00:36:23] and my daughter and her friends

[00:36:24] are interested in studying at one of the city's

[00:36:26] sixth form colleges

[00:36:27] but it doesn't appear to be the place of hope

[00:36:30] and opportunity that I think it once was

[00:36:32] for kids across Sussex 20 years ago

[00:36:36] Brighton's population

[00:36:37] hasn't grown by more than 1.5%

[00:36:39] in the last decade

[00:36:41] there is less net migration into the city

[00:36:43] than at any other point in history

[00:36:44] and that might be a problem

[00:36:47] it can't afford

[00:36:48] to be, as my daughter says

[00:36:50] just a city

[00:36:52] and one of the things that I am most excited about

[00:36:55] is also

[00:36:56] one of the things that I'm most anxious about

[00:36:59] and that's about the level

[00:37:01] of development

[00:37:02] that's happening in the city and by development

[00:37:04] I mean construction

[00:37:05] In Kate Rayworth's doughnut economic model

[00:37:08] there's a tipping point in which growth overshoots

[00:37:11] and starts depleting the resources

[00:37:13] we have available

[00:37:14] The climate crisis is our obvious

[00:37:16] living demonstration of what happens

[00:37:18] when growth is unchecked

[00:37:21] or unbalanced

[00:37:23] PR guru Flo Powell

[00:37:24] has been carefully monitoring the public mood

[00:37:26] about the literal growth in Brighton-Hove

[00:37:29] the recent building boom

[00:37:31] So property

[00:37:33] is an area that's a key sector

[00:37:35] for us at midnight

[00:37:36] we have some great clients in that sector

[00:37:39] and we worked on the Edward Street Quarter

[00:37:41] campaign for six years

[00:37:43] which is quite unusual to work with

[00:37:45] a property developer on a particular development for that long

[00:37:47] and that was quite controversial

[00:37:50] £140 million

[00:37:51] mixed use development

[00:37:53] in the heart of the city

[00:37:55] well, just in Kemptown

[00:37:57] and

[00:37:58] everywhere you look there are cranes and construction happening

[00:38:01] in this city and any good economist will tell you

[00:38:03] that signals good news

[00:38:05] in terms of a city's economy

[00:38:07] if there's construction happening because it signals

[00:38:09] confidence in inward investment

[00:38:11] that people want to build here

[00:38:13] of course there are huge challenges

[00:38:16] with development in Brighton

[00:38:18] and everybody knows this

[00:38:19] without me having to say it out loud

[00:38:22] but we are sandwiched

[00:38:23] in between the fish

[00:38:25] and the sheep

[00:38:26] so therefore we are really constricted

[00:38:29] in terms of where new development can go

[00:38:31] and therefore

[00:38:32] is it just going to continue to go up

[00:38:34] is Brighton going to look like Hong Kong

[00:38:36] in the future just full of skyscrapers

[00:38:38] I don't know

[00:38:40] how that's going to go and what does it mean

[00:38:42] for the 2000 plus people on the

[00:38:44] social housing list who are waiting

[00:38:46] to be housed somewhere

[00:38:48] better for their families

[00:38:50] that is tricky

[00:38:51] we have just started working with an amazing company

[00:38:54] B Corp

[00:38:56] modular housing company called Boutique Modern

[00:38:57] based in New Haven

[00:38:59] who are striving to help solve the affordable

[00:39:02] housing crisis by taking

[00:39:04] advantage of smaller brownfield sites

[00:39:07] that are

[00:39:08] currently not used

[00:39:10] that are council owned

[00:39:12] and turning those into

[00:39:14] little affordable housing

[00:39:16] residential neighbourhoods

[00:39:18] and the beauty of what they do is that

[00:39:20] the build process

[00:39:22] is so much less disruptive for local

[00:39:24] residents because it all happens

[00:39:26] within months instead of years

[00:39:28] and they put giant screws into the ground

[00:39:30] instead of digging it all out to build

[00:39:32] proper foundations like a traditional

[00:39:34] construction method would

[00:39:35] and it's therefore quieter and quicker

[00:39:38] and less disruptive for the immediate neighbours

[00:39:40] which is great so there are some

[00:39:42] brilliant things happening

[00:39:44] seeing cranes across the skyline

[00:39:46] in Brighton means that we're

[00:39:48] a thriving economy and that

[00:39:50] people want to build here

[00:39:52] confidence in inward investment is high

[00:39:54] but we

[00:39:56] as you know are a population

[00:39:57] which is quick to protest

[00:39:59] and we are city

[00:40:01] full of nimbies

[00:40:02] that don't want big developments

[00:40:05] on their doorstep and it causes

[00:40:07] a huge amount of conflict

[00:40:09] between the developers trying to build

[00:40:11] and the residents

[00:40:13] who have got a development

[00:40:15] happening on their backyard

[00:40:17] which understandably

[00:40:19] is uncomfortable

[00:40:21] I feel for the people who've got a big

[00:40:23] development happening right outside

[00:40:25] their house and having to put up

[00:40:27] with many years of construction

[00:40:29] probably on the back of many years of construction

[00:40:31] before that with many more

[00:40:33] years of construction ahead of them

[00:40:35] that is not a comfortable situation

[00:40:38] is talk

[00:40:39] of green growth an oxymoron

[00:40:42] I wonder

[00:40:43] the net zero economy has been a

[00:40:45] political football of late

[00:40:47] with big pledges to drive economic growth

[00:40:49] whilst decarbonising being

[00:40:51] vociferously made and then

[00:40:53] inevitably watered down

[00:40:55] how real is it in Brighton?

[00:40:57] the UK's pioneer

[00:40:58] in green politics and quirky

[00:41:00] entrepreneurialism that now wants to reap

[00:41:02] its reward and get invested in

[00:41:04] this is Kayla

[00:41:06] my name is Kayla Enti

[00:41:07] I'm the founder and chief executive

[00:41:10] of Brighton and Hove Energy Services

[00:41:12] Cooperative

[00:41:14] I moved to Brighton deliberately

[00:41:16] to set up the organization

[00:41:19] and

[00:41:20] had some help from Alex Hunt

[00:41:23] who's also a local entrepreneur

[00:41:25] runs Brighton Green Homes

[00:41:27] and

[00:41:28] Ali Pendred from the community energy

[00:41:31] south group

[00:41:33] I came to Brighton to

[00:41:35] set up

[00:41:35] well to get out of London where I tried

[00:41:38] to do something similar

[00:41:40] and we just didn't have the community coherence

[00:41:43] that we have here in Brighton and Hove

[00:41:46] Kayla Enti

[00:41:47] picked Brighton to lead her green

[00:41:49] energy revolution

[00:41:50] her company Brighton and Hove Energy Services Cooperative

[00:41:53] usefully called BESCO for short

[00:41:56] struggled to get off the ground

[00:41:57] anywhere else

[00:41:58] but is arguably thriving now

[00:42:01] because Brighton is the right place

[00:42:03] and this is the right time

[00:42:05] I had been doing consulting with other groups

[00:42:08] like Brighton Energy Co-op

[00:42:10] and helping them

[00:42:12] advise them about things that

[00:42:14] industries specific

[00:42:16] energy industry specific things

[00:42:18] I think was successful here in Brighton and Hove

[00:42:22] and I think that's because

[00:42:24] of the progressive nature

[00:42:26] of the people who live in this city

[00:42:29] and work in this city

[00:42:30] the optimism

[00:42:32] I believe that's an undercurrent

[00:42:34] of life here

[00:42:36] So what does an energy services

[00:42:38] cooperative do?

[00:42:40] The grand vision is

[00:42:42] that we have affordable

[00:42:44] clean heat and power

[00:42:46] available to

[00:42:48] the people of Brighton and Hove

[00:42:50] but also the entire nation

[00:42:52] and BESCO is

[00:42:54] an important part of that community

[00:42:56] energy movement that's happening all

[00:42:58] across the country

[00:43:00] there's 400

[00:43:02] organizations that are involved

[00:43:04] in community energy

[00:43:06] BESCO is one of the leading organizations

[00:43:08] and

[00:43:10] we basically have

[00:43:12] a strategy that

[00:43:14] helps us achieve our

[00:43:16] aim of developing

[00:43:18] renewable energy projects

[00:43:20] so promoting

[00:43:22] heat pumps and solar

[00:43:24] and

[00:43:26] looking at onshore wind

[00:43:28] and where we could have

[00:43:30] wind turbines that fit into

[00:43:32] the landscape

[00:43:34] and the economy

[00:43:35] to help us drive forward

[00:43:38] that low carbon economy here

[00:43:40] locally

[00:43:41] so we're an energy, we're a social enterprise

[00:43:44] we're a cooperative

[00:43:46] and the whole idea is that

[00:43:48] there's no profit to be made

[00:43:50] out of

[00:43:51] making sure that everyone has enough

[00:43:53] heat to

[00:43:54] heat their homes that they can afford it

[00:43:57] and they can power their homes

[00:44:00] and

[00:44:01] so that's part of our mission is to

[00:44:03] combat fuel poverty

[00:44:05] we spend a lot of time

[00:44:07] especially in these cold days

[00:44:09] that we have now

[00:44:10] helping people stay warmer for less money

[00:44:13] if that means sitting on the phone

[00:44:15] for an hour and a half

[00:44:16] with British gas

[00:44:18] or putting in

[00:44:20] cling film around the windows

[00:44:23] to help keep the drafts out of the

[00:44:25] single glazed home

[00:44:26] or putting a radiator reflector

[00:44:28] behind the panel

[00:44:29] it's all about bringing

[00:44:32] the humanity back

[00:44:34] into the energy industry

[00:44:36] that electricity

[00:44:38] and heat are no longer

[00:44:40] commodities

[00:44:40] or from gas

[00:44:44] heating

[00:44:44] it's really about how we use our natural resources

[00:44:48] like sun and wind

[00:44:50] to transition

[00:44:52] our community into a way that's going to

[00:44:54] protect us

[00:44:55] and look after us

[00:44:58] that's the ultimate aim

[00:45:00] in series one

[00:45:01] I suggested that the green economy now

[00:45:03] and the innovation in it

[00:45:04] will be something that puts Brighton on the map

[00:45:07] building on and maybe doing more so

[00:45:09] than the early adopters like Magpie

[00:45:11] and the big lemon that we spoke to

[00:45:14] with the launch of the extraordinary

[00:45:16] Sussex Bay initiative

[00:45:17] and the acceleration of organisations

[00:45:19] like Besco

[00:45:21] I think the link between green growth

[00:45:23] conservation, housing, tourism

[00:45:25] and business has just gone up a notch

[00:45:28] one thing that we've been working really

[00:45:30] closely on is a circular

[00:45:32] economy business network

[00:45:34] called Brighton Loop

[00:45:36] Here's Vicky Hughes who you met in the last episode

[00:45:38] from PR firm Fugu

[00:45:40] The reason I mentioned that is because

[00:45:42] that's been going for less than a year now

[00:45:44] and I think there's a lot more

[00:45:47] focus

[00:45:48] and energy in creating sustainable

[00:45:50] and circular businesses within the city

[00:45:51] and there's a lot of people working very much in silo

[00:45:54] and there's a real need

[00:45:56] to connect those businesses together

[00:45:57] Chambers have done a brilliant job with net zero over champions

[00:46:00] but there's more of a need to connect

[00:46:02] so the people aren't learning from scratch

[00:46:04] people are passing on the waste

[00:46:06] they're creating to other businesses that can use it

[00:46:08] there's a real need to collaborate

[00:46:10] and connect

[00:46:11] and that work has started and there's this great group

[00:46:14] and we want to do more

[00:46:15] we want to attract more businesses into the city

[00:46:17] to actually do more circular businesses as well

[00:46:20] Would that have happened without the pandemic?

[00:46:24] It might have happened naturally maybe not as quickly

[00:46:26] potentially

[00:46:28] Brighton Loop as Vicky mentioned

[00:46:30] and other work by Brighton Circular

[00:46:32] and the local land trust

[00:46:33] seem to be reigniting the capacity of the city

[00:46:36] to lead action in the circular economy conversation

[00:46:39] but in a way that is starting to see economic returns

[00:46:42] the council have committed

[00:46:44] to circular economy start-up

[00:46:46] and business support hubs by 2030

[00:46:48] with an ambition to half food waste

[00:46:50] and for 60% of all building materials

[00:46:52] to be recoverable

[00:46:53] and all this by 2030

[00:46:55] if this is successful

[00:46:57] it will help build a local green

[00:46:59] innovation industry

[00:47:01] the likes we've never seen

[00:47:03] and when you look at the businesses attracting investment

[00:47:05] in the city at the moment

[00:47:07] maybe there's a pattern emerging

[00:47:09] either in the sharing economy brands

[00:47:11] like MPB and trusted house-sitters

[00:47:12] which specialise in reselling camera equipment

[00:47:15] and a subscription service

[00:47:17] for holiday pet sitting

[00:47:18] getting valued at over 100 million each

[00:47:21] and expanding fast in overseas markets

[00:47:23] or Lucy and Yak

[00:47:25] one of the fastest growing fashion brands

[00:47:27] in the country started in Brighton

[00:47:29] and selling clothes made from recycled wool

[00:47:32] and polyester

[00:47:33] these are not fringe, niche businesses

[00:47:36] we explored some of the psychological challenges

[00:47:39] that stop most Brighton businesses

[00:47:41] from growing above a certain point

[00:47:42] in series 1

[00:47:44] but now I'm wondering whether that was a timing thing

[00:47:47] does the business ecosystem

[00:47:49] need a bit more of a deliberate focus

[00:47:51] whether it is green growth

[00:47:53] AI or a re-energising

[00:47:55] of the super fusion concept

[00:47:58] did it just need some of the renewal

[00:48:00] and the impatient energy

[00:48:01] that is now prevalent in 2024

[00:48:03] as a legacy of the pandemic

[00:48:05] so it was actually at the launch

[00:48:07] at the amix of the Brighton paradox

[00:48:09] that I felt a real sense

[00:48:11] of I must do something with this

[00:48:14] and it was a simple question

[00:48:15] that you asked at the panel Richard

[00:48:17] that really caused that

[00:48:19] burning kind of

[00:48:21] I must do something here about this

[00:48:23] which was you asked the panel

[00:48:24] what does Brighton look like in 10 to 20 years time

[00:48:27] this man really does believe that

[00:48:29] growth is not a dirty word

[00:48:31] that question

[00:48:33] simply posed fused

[00:48:35] with my MBA that I just recently completed

[00:48:37] University of Brighton

[00:48:39] and my dissertation on starting

[00:48:41] to scaling in Brighton

[00:48:43] and the journey of businesses

[00:48:44] because Brighton is known as a startup hub

[00:48:46] it's famed for

[00:48:48] being a real

[00:48:50] bubbling pot of ideas

[00:48:52] and creativity and collaboration

[00:48:54] and ideas

[00:48:57] and I was really interested

[00:48:58] in my dissertation of exploring

[00:49:00] that journey of start to scale

[00:49:02] say hello to Simon

[00:49:03] I'm Simon Tudor

[00:49:05] I'm head of investment services and centres at Sussex Innovation

[00:49:08] that's my formal title and role

[00:49:10] I also run

[00:49:13] a nascent

[00:49:14] startup of sorts

[00:49:15] or kind of side hustle called Scale Up Sussex

[00:49:18] which has received

[00:49:19] some attention from me in 2023

[00:49:22] primarily off the back of

[00:49:23] Richard's kind of podcast

[00:49:26] Brighton Paradox and that kind of the inspiration

[00:49:28] that came and led to that

[00:49:29] The pleasure in talking to Simon

[00:49:30] and I like talking to Simon a lot

[00:49:32] is that he shows you his workings

[00:49:35] he speaks quickly and clearly

[00:49:37] but he mixes his inner monologue

[00:49:39] with his external communication

[00:49:41] he's thinking and talking

[00:49:43] and analysing as he speaks

[00:49:45] and it's charming

[00:49:46] and one of the things I came to understand was

[00:49:48] the role of funding and finance

[00:49:50] within that journey to help

[00:49:53] innovation grow

[00:49:54] and develop and push forwards

[00:49:56] so that thing about like

[00:49:58] what does Brighton look like in the next 10 to 20 years

[00:50:00] just really got

[00:50:02] lit a fire in me really and said

[00:50:04] well I don't know

[00:50:05] I'm not quite sure but I want to be part of that story

[00:50:08] was how it spoke to me

[00:50:11] and I want to be part

[00:50:13] I want to do something that really has an impact

[00:50:15] in Brighton and in the greater

[00:50:17] Brighton when I think about Brighton

[00:50:18] I think about the region

[00:50:19] and the area and what impact can I have

[00:50:22] because that's in the people that you interviewed

[00:50:25] over the series of the podcast

[00:50:27] really inspiring

[00:50:29] passionate positive individuals

[00:50:31] who bring their own unique perspectives

[00:50:33] and perceptions

[00:50:34] and views to what makes Brighton

[00:50:37] what it is

[00:50:38] I thought what can I do as part of that

[00:50:40] what can I bring forward

[00:50:43] so that was the genesis

[00:50:44] for me of what became Scale Up Sussex

[00:50:47] and I ran a round table

[00:50:49] in March of this year

[00:50:51] which was crazy to think how long ago that was

[00:50:52] I put out a LinkedIn post saying

[00:50:55] look what if Brighton became

[00:50:56] a Scale Up City rather than being known

[00:50:59] as a startup what would

[00:51:00] a Scale Up City look like

[00:51:02] and I got a really positive, such a kind

[00:51:05] and generous and warm

[00:51:06] positive response to that post

[00:51:08] I ended up in the Grand Hotel in Brighton

[00:51:10] with about 30 people round a big

[00:51:13] long table just exploring

[00:51:15] the idea of what would

[00:51:17] a Scale Up City look like

[00:51:19] what are the challenges, what are the barriers

[00:51:20] all that kind of stuff

[00:51:21] it was a really interesting conversation

[00:51:23] actually maybe slightly paradoxically

[00:51:26] pardon the pun

[00:51:27] I actually found the individual one-to-one conversations

[00:51:30] that I had with people

[00:51:33] easier to manage

[00:51:34] having a big room of 30 people

[00:51:35] you know as a facilitator Richard

[00:51:37] how the different

[00:51:39] diverse perspectives and angles

[00:51:41] the conversation leads to and draws in

[00:51:44] is a real kind of

[00:51:45] menagerie to kind of manage

[00:51:47] and to hold as a group

[00:51:49] and I went into that

[00:51:51] conversation hoping that my one-to-one conversations

[00:51:53] would be exponentially

[00:51:55] the value would just grow and grow

[00:51:57] with a bigger group actually

[00:51:58] that was quite a challenging

[00:52:00] environment to kind of run and

[00:52:02] deliver, valuable and interesting as it was

[00:52:05] it really really was and I value

[00:52:06] the time of the generosity of everyone

[00:52:08] being involved in coming along to have that conversation

[00:52:10] is very sincerely held

[00:52:12] by me. I had to reflect

[00:52:14] and review and kind of

[00:52:16] take into account all the different perspectives

[00:52:18] that came through

[00:52:20] and the thing that

[00:52:22] I landed on may not be

[00:52:24] and I subsequently wrote to everyone

[00:52:26] that came along and said this may not be what you hoped this was going to be

[00:52:29] but where I landed on it was

[00:52:31] again from a very finance and investment

[00:52:33] led model whereby

[00:52:36] I was really

[00:52:37] I was going to try and see if I could bring

[00:52:39] out of London some of the big VC money

[00:52:41] because everything gets sucked into London

[00:52:43] not everything but like a lot of talent

[00:52:45] gets sucked into London a lot of you know

[00:52:47] businesses get sucked into London lots of things

[00:52:49] and I was like how can I re-engineer

[00:52:52] that trend can I is it possible

[00:52:53] for me to somehow

[00:52:55] suck out some of that

[00:52:57] London capital into Sussex

[00:52:59] and Brighton based businesses

[00:53:01] that was the basic premise of where I've got to

[00:53:03] a scale-up Sussex. I then subsequently

[00:53:06] left employment

[00:53:07] with my with a SAS

[00:53:08] that I was working for was re-employed

[00:53:11] by Sussex Innovation and I've had my head down

[00:53:13] for the second half of the year trying to build in

[00:53:15] Nathan Angel Investment Network

[00:53:16] so kind of paused for now

[00:53:18] my engagement in scale-up

[00:53:21] Sussex and that idea and vision

[00:53:23] to bring VC money out of London

[00:53:25] and into Sussex and Brighton

[00:53:27] but it's still very much present in my mind

[00:53:28] and this conversation brings it much more

[00:53:30] back to kind of the forefront of my mind

[00:53:32] and thinking as to

[00:53:35] there's something there I think Richard

[00:53:36] there's something it's by far

[00:53:39] away not the answer

[00:53:41] and it was never intended to be the answer

[00:53:43] and to all

[00:53:45] of the challenges, opportunities

[00:53:47] and scope

[00:53:49] that your brilliant podcast presented

[00:53:51] it was just one slither

[00:53:52] of that

[00:53:54] and my potential answer

[00:53:57] to the question what do I want Brighton to look like

[00:53:59] in the next 20 years

[00:54:00] and for me it was about

[00:54:02] supporting and helping

[00:54:04] to achieve that level of scale

[00:54:06] in businesses and entrepreneurship

[00:54:08] who really want to go beyond

[00:54:10] the earlier stage you know

[00:54:11] to really achieve mass adoption

[00:54:14] and scale in their impact

[00:54:16] and impact was a key part of it for me

[00:54:18] and social impact was a big part of it for me as well

[00:54:21] yeah that's where I got to

[00:54:22] with all of that thinking

[00:54:31] there does seem to be quite a few spin out projects

[00:54:34] from the Brighton Paradox

[00:54:36] some I'm involved in

[00:54:37] but most I just keep being told about

[00:54:40] and that genuinely feels great

[00:54:43] but of course

[00:54:44] I am always conscious about the risk

[00:54:46] of just adding more noise

[00:54:47] and no more signals

[00:54:50] more conversations

[00:54:51] but no action

[00:54:52] but I think it is important

[00:54:55] for everyone trying stuff

[00:54:56] getting impatient

[00:54:57] and testing pilots

[00:54:59] to show their workings like Simon does

[00:55:02] to be transparent about

[00:55:03] what works and what doesn't

[00:55:05] invite people in, share the learning

[00:55:09] with Paul Doran

[00:55:10] Charlie Simmons from Illyriity

[00:55:12] and Sarah Tico from Hatsumi

[00:55:13] who I spoke to in series one

[00:55:16] I've developed something called the Brighton Connective

[00:55:18] spelt with no E

[00:55:20] don't know why, just sounds cool

[00:55:21] it's a monthly digest of what is bubbling

[00:55:24] and causing ripples in the city's education

[00:55:26] business, community, leisure

[00:55:28] culture, environment and health sectors

[00:55:30] it's focused on the experiments

[00:55:32] and the collaborations

[00:55:33] the successes and the things being tested

[00:55:36] you can subscribe for free

[00:55:38] by searching for the Brighton Connective

[00:55:40] with no E

[00:55:42] and there are research projects

[00:55:43] that I know about looking at sustainable

[00:55:45] nethical growth

[00:55:47] and I know the podcast has galvanized

[00:55:49] some other think and do groups

[00:55:50] and it's helped diversify some of the approaches

[00:55:53] to problem solving

[00:55:55] but at the end of the day

[00:55:57] it's just a podcast

[00:55:58] and it will be a moment in time soon

[00:56:00] an archive and a memory

[00:56:04] true growth

[00:56:06] the kind focused on thriving

[00:56:08] and a balance between people's needs

[00:56:10] resources, the natural world

[00:56:12] opportunity and equity

[00:56:13] will be driven by people consistently

[00:56:16] showing up

[00:56:16] trying new things, new podcasts

[00:56:19] new conversations

[00:56:21] thinking like a system

[00:56:22] but acting like entrepreneurs

[00:56:25] it is creating the conditions

[00:56:28] for the mycelium to spread

[00:56:29] and connect everything together

[00:56:31] but making sure that nothing slows it down

[00:56:36] the Covid-19 pandemic

[00:56:37] Brexit, austerity and recession

[00:56:40] has fundamentally changed the core

[00:56:42] of how Brighton-Hove works

[00:56:44] pushing many of its small and growing organizations

[00:56:46] to the brink

[00:56:47] to either innovate or face closure

[00:56:50] the future has got to be more resilient

[00:56:52] with sustainable economic thinking

[00:56:55] but if we're going to support the talent

[00:56:57] and capabilities that will drive forward

[00:56:59] social health and technological advantage

[00:57:01] they have to be given the space

[00:57:03] to be nurtured

[00:57:05] and the city needs to change

[00:57:07] from being London's sweatshop

[00:57:08] to being a trusted and respected partner

[00:57:12] post-pandemic Brighton-Hove

[00:57:13] is experiencing a new palpable energy

[00:57:16] marked by anger, frustration

[00:57:18] and determination

[00:57:20] how we use that will determine

[00:57:22] what comes next

[00:57:24] impatience can be a virtue

[00:57:26] but only if it's pragmatic

[00:57:29] projects like Class Divide

[00:57:31] have genuinely empowered local communities

[00:57:33] in ways we've not seen before

[00:57:34] challenging political decisions

[00:57:36] and highlighting educational and social inequality

[00:57:39] with a plan for change

[00:57:40] and political shifts in the council

[00:57:42] might create an opportunity

[00:57:44] for clearer leadership and potential systemic change

[00:57:48] well they might not

[00:57:50] but the hope is there

[00:57:51] for the first time in a long time

[00:57:54] culture, and now sport too

[00:57:57] can keep rising again

[00:57:58] in a new environment

[00:57:59] to become a major and riching force in the city

[00:58:02] rebuilding the links between community pride

[00:58:04] and economic and social innovation

[00:58:07] green growth and emerging tech ideas

[00:58:09] need to be backed, supported, shouted about

[00:58:11] the city is not an island

[00:58:13] it's not a bubble

[00:58:14] not if we want to pay people properly

[00:58:16] and house people properly

[00:58:19] and young people

[00:58:20] need to be reminded

[00:58:21] that this city is theirs for the taking

[00:58:26] to close up

[00:58:27] I'm going to leave the last words

[00:58:29] to Bobby Brown

[00:58:31] Bobby embodies so much of what's needed

[00:58:34] in my eyes

[00:58:35] a son of the city

[00:58:36] who balances fast commercial and entrepreneurial

[00:58:39] doing with deep

[00:58:40] and embedded advocacy

[00:58:41] of the city's underrepresented and misunderstood

[00:58:45] he gets it

[00:58:46] and he's still got time on his side

[00:58:48] to collaborate

[00:58:49] to lead change

[00:58:52] and if he's hopeful

[00:58:54] then so am I

[00:58:57] there's a real opportunity

[00:58:59] to

[00:59:01] give Brighton a rebirth

[00:59:03] based on all of the

[00:59:05] sort of research and strategy

[00:59:06] and reports that we've developed over

[00:59:09] the last five years

[00:59:11] there was obviously the massive disruption

[00:59:13] during the pandemic

[00:59:14] but I think to look at the positives

[00:59:16] that was also a moment for

[00:59:19] isolation quite literally

[00:59:20] but reflection and just

[00:59:23] to let the mind

[00:59:25] settle

[00:59:25] and

[00:59:27] your imagination could run away

[00:59:29] and I feel like it was quite

[00:59:31] a transformative period for a lot of

[00:59:33] people and society at large

[00:59:35] out of that

[00:59:36] it's a bit of a shock and kind of blinded by the lights

[00:59:39] a bit

[00:59:40] ok well now what

[00:59:43] and

[00:59:45] I think people realise that they don't want to return

[00:59:48] to what once was

[00:59:49] but there's a little bit of

[00:59:51] angst about what the future holds

[00:59:53] and I think that is

[00:59:55] fair based on the narrative

[00:59:57] and you know the noise that we're hearing

[00:59:59] and obviously just yeah

[01:00:01] economic cultural political climate

[01:00:03] it does feel uncertain

[01:00:04] and unsettled

[01:00:07] but I truly believe we're going through

[01:00:09] a period of great transformation

[01:00:11] I'm really really

[01:00:13] excited about sort of the

[01:00:15] technological advances that we're seeing

[01:00:17] with the AI

[01:00:19] revolution

[01:00:20] I feel like it's the equaliser

[01:00:22] that we've been waiting for

[01:00:24] I feel like

[01:00:26] yeah there is a lot of

[01:00:27] worry and sort of fear of the unknown

[01:00:30] and again this is sort of

[01:00:32] exponential growth

[01:00:33] and change that I think we're going to see

[01:00:36] yeah I also

[01:00:37] understand the worry but I

[01:00:39] implore people to explore the worry

[01:00:41] and the emotions that are

[01:00:43] arising when confronted with this

[01:00:45] inevitable change

[01:01:01] Thank you for listening to the Brighton Paradox

[01:01:03] Series 2 Episode 4

[01:01:05] This podcast investigation

[01:01:07] has been brought to you by Always Possible

[01:01:09] in collaboration with Low-Flight Arts

[01:01:11] and the series has generously been supported

[01:01:13] by Brighton & Hope Albion Football Club

[01:01:16] Project Partners are EQ investors

[01:01:18] The University of Brighton

[01:01:19] Midnight Communications and Illyricity

[01:01:21] Original Music is by Fatboy Slim

[01:01:24] Nooray and Crystal Tracy

[01:01:26] The special guest contributors in this episode

[01:01:28] Paul Doran, Flo Powell

[01:01:30] Rose Tai, Bobby Brown

[01:01:32] Kayla Enti, Simon Schuter

[01:01:34] Nell Freeman, Vicki Hughes

[01:01:36] Alex Young and Gavin Stewart

[01:01:39] Thank you to all of them

[01:01:40] for their time and generosity

[01:01:43] Please check out the show notes for links

[01:01:44] to guests, for other reading and information

[01:01:46] on projects mentioned

[01:01:48] The Brighton Paradox was written and presented

[01:01:50] by me Richard Freeman

[01:01:51] and production editing was by Chris Thorpe Tracy

[01:01:54] for Low-Flight Arts

[01:02:02] Always Possible.co.uk