Practical Bravery - CONSCIOUS CO-WORKING!

[00:00:00] This podcast is brought to you by Always Possible

[00:00:04] alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:00:13] Well, it is time for The Possibility Club. Hello. How are you doing?

[00:00:17] I hope everything is well in your world. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[00:00:22] This is The Possibility Club where we're going to explore the transformative

[00:00:25] world of co-working spaces and the burgeoning professional

[00:00:29] communities that they are beginning to foster. As the

[00:00:33] traditional office evolves and the allure of flexible work

[00:00:36] arrangements post pandemic grows and grows, the importance of

[00:00:40] spaces that inspire, include and innovate becomes increasingly

[00:00:46] clear. My guest in this episode is at the vanguard of

[00:00:50] workplace culture and co-working spaces and directs a

[00:00:54] visionary enterprise that is reshaping how professionals in

[00:00:59] business or the self-employed interact and thrive. She's

[00:01:04] leading an initiative with established roots in Brighton,

[00:01:07] with plans for nationwide expansion. She's championing a

[00:01:11] future where workspaces not only meet modern needs, but also

[00:01:14] cultivate communities grounded in equity, sustainability, as

[00:01:19] well as commercial growth. But what broader impact do these

[00:01:24] new and exploding spaces hold for local economies and social

[00:01:29] dynamics? Can the environments we work in become the epicenters

[00:01:33] of innovation and social change, fostering a new kind of

[00:01:36] urban and community life? My guest visits co-working spaces

[00:01:41] around the world. She chairs conferences looking at the future

[00:01:45] of the workspace. And so with her I will be delving into

[00:01:49] some questions that consider the role of these dynamic

[00:01:53] spaces, shaping not just careers, economic growth, but the

[00:01:57] cultural and economic landscapes that make up our towns and

[00:02:01] our cities. Are they just a modern trend? Or do they

[00:02:04] represent some new foundational elements of what future cities

[00:02:08] will look like where collaboration is at the core?

[00:02:12] I'm Richard Freeman. This is The Possibility Club. My very

[00:02:15] special guest in this episode is the director of Projects,

[00:02:20] Alex Young.

[00:02:24] Welcome to The Possibility Club podcast. It's me, Richard. Hello.

[00:02:32] And we're looking at change impact leadership bravery, where

[00:02:38] it comes from in all corners from business culture, society.

[00:02:42] And I've got a wonderful guest. As always, they are

[00:02:45] extraordinary. And I'm really looking forward to a deep dive

[00:02:50] chat about all things co-working and business spaces and

[00:02:55] community building, balancing community building with future

[00:03:00] focused enterprise and how we support small and growing

[00:03:04] businesses in the quirky corners of the UK. And my guest

[00:03:08] this episode is Alex Young. Hello, Alex. How are you?

[00:03:13] Hi, I'm very well. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm

[00:03:15] really excited about this.

[00:03:17] Absolutely pleasure. So loads to talk about really want to look

[00:03:22] at the philosophy of the projects and to talk a little bit

[00:03:26] about your work and journey and vision for this new wave of

[00:03:30] business spaces that I've taken over lots of different towns

[00:03:34] and cities in exciting ways. But before we do that, that you

[00:03:37] were on the telly yesterday on the BBC, but you were talking

[00:03:41] about autism. That's linked to what we're going to talk

[00:03:43] about. But why?

[00:03:45] So yes, I was on the one show yesterday. I was talking about

[00:03:48] neurovergent workspaces and how you can make sure that as an

[00:03:52] employer, you're supporting people who are neurodiverse in

[00:03:55] your workforce. It was because yesterday a report came out

[00:03:59] called the Buckingham Review of Autism. And it was all about

[00:04:03] addressing the challenges faced by autistic individuals in the

[00:04:06] workforce. And the review outlined a really comprehensive

[00:04:09] approach to promote inclusion and improve employment

[00:04:12] outcomes. So we employ people who are neurodivergent, we

[00:04:17] actually put that we are supportive of people with

[00:04:20] neurodiverse needs in our job adverts so that people know that

[00:04:24] they should apply their welcome to apply and will support them

[00:04:26] accordingly. And then we work with an amazing organisation

[00:04:30] called Exceptional Individuals to make sure that we can get

[00:04:33] government grants and put in place the right kind of

[00:04:35] support for people who have lots of different types of

[00:04:39] needs, whether that's autism, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia or

[00:04:45] anything else that falls under the neurodivergent category. We

[00:04:48] also try and make sure that our workplaces are as conducive to

[00:04:52] look ways of working for people that are neurodiverse as

[00:04:54] possible. So we have quiet spaces, clear signs so people

[00:04:59] know what to do in each area, noise cancelling headphones,

[00:05:03] different levels of lighting. So making sure that our

[00:05:06] spaces are really truly inclusive is so important to us.

[00:05:09] And that's what I was chatting about for a lot less time than

[00:05:12] I've just used here now.

[00:05:15] That's the beauty of a podcast, isn't it? You don't have to do

[00:05:18] any of that. You're selling hot desks, office space, square

[00:05:21] footage, you're creating, you know, beautiful real estate for

[00:05:26] entrepreneurs that are growing their businesses and

[00:05:29] building their teams. So all of that stuff that you just

[00:05:31] talked about, which is extraordinary and needed and

[00:05:35] compassionate and useful is not required, is it? There's a

[00:05:38] very conscious decision about the kind of space you want to be

[00:05:42] and the kind of people that you want to be able to bring

[00:05:45] into the space that probably look at other co-working spaces

[00:05:47] and go, I can't thrive there. I can't be myself and I won't

[00:05:51] be able to be productive. So you've changed the

[00:05:55] conversation there slightly. Why? Why is that important

[00:05:59] to you? Why have you just become a B Corp?

[00:06:01] I disagree. I think that it is essential for us.

[00:06:04] I thought you would and I hope so.

[00:06:06] I'm glad. I love to disagree. I have to say I won my

[00:06:10] debate at European Youth Parliament when I was younger

[00:06:13] and that is my biggest claim to fame. I love to argue

[00:06:17] and I'll tell you that we don't just sell workspaces

[00:06:20] because if that's what we did, we would do that a lot

[00:06:23] better and we'd make more money. But that's not why

[00:06:25] we're here. We want to make sure that we are

[00:06:28] actually creating a positive difference in people's

[00:06:30] lives and to do that, we need diverse people in

[00:06:34] our spaces. We need to problem solve together and

[00:06:38] to do that, you can't just have people that think

[00:06:40] the same way, look the same kind of lived experience.

[00:06:44] So for us, it's all about making sure that we are

[00:06:48] truly creating an inclusive and diverse space.

[00:06:52] And I know diversity and inclusion are buzzwords.

[00:06:55] They get used way too much. For us, we're creating

[00:07:00] community spaces, not just selling office space.

[00:07:05] We have recently certified as a B Corp and I'm going

[00:07:08] to say something which I think others might cringe at,

[00:07:11] but everybody talks about how hard becoming a B Corp is.

[00:07:15] For those that don't know about the business

[00:07:17] certification that abbreviated to B Corp,

[00:07:20] it stands for becoming a benefit corporation.

[00:07:22] So as a bit of becoming fair trade, you have to

[00:07:26] pick up points and input a lot of data to prove

[00:07:29] that your organisation has the highest levels

[00:07:31] of social and environmental stewardship.

[00:07:36] I didn't find it hard and that's the thing

[00:07:39] which I think people might hear and just roll their

[00:07:41] eyes at. It requires a lot of hours, a lot of policy

[00:07:46] changes or data gathering.

[00:07:49] You have to change your articles of associate

[00:07:53] and use a lawyer to literally change the legal

[00:07:56] wording of what your business exists to do.

[00:07:58] You have to change it from maximising your shareholder

[00:08:02] returns to benefiting all of your stakeholders

[00:08:04] for the decisions that you make.

[00:08:06] OK, it's not straightforward, but it's not hard.

[00:08:09] For us, we were doing all of these things anyway.

[00:08:11] We just had to find the right Google documents

[00:08:13] and upload them. It took a little bit of time,

[00:08:15] but if we were trying to become a B Corp

[00:08:18] because we wanted to use the B Corp logo,

[00:08:20] that would be inauthentic.

[00:08:22] And I think that's the side of the B Corp movement

[00:08:24] that gets bad press and rightly so,

[00:08:27] because there are so many organisations that can pay

[00:08:29] for a consultant to come on board, reword a few policies

[00:08:33] and fabricate the data and then get the company

[00:08:37] to become a B Corp.

[00:08:39] I do agree that that's wrong and there need to be

[00:08:41] more strict mechanisms in place by B Lab,

[00:08:45] the organisation that certifies B Corp

[00:08:47] to ensure that that isn't how the movement progresses.

[00:08:51] But for us, we were just looking to have an easy way

[00:08:54] of showing people that knew about the B Corp movement

[00:08:57] or wanted to know about it,

[00:08:58] that something which is really important to us.

[00:09:01] So that's why we're a B Corp.

[00:09:03] And there's debate about anything that is

[00:09:05] genuinely good and done for the right reasons,

[00:09:07] but then as it becomes popular,

[00:09:09] those that aren't doing it for the right reasons

[00:09:11] find a way to grab a bit of it.

[00:09:13] So I think how you just outlined your approach to it

[00:09:17] I think is really important.

[00:09:18] So what is projects?

[00:09:19] You've articulated that it's more than space.

[00:09:22] It's more than buildings.

[00:09:24] And currently it's two buildings in Brighton

[00:09:26] on the south coast by the beach,

[00:09:28] but you've got plans to open up spaces

[00:09:31] and other parts of the United Kingdom.

[00:09:34] I imagine most listeners will have used

[00:09:37] or been in some kind of co-working space

[00:09:39] and will understand that it's a, you know,

[00:09:42] all sorts of different rooms, individual desks,

[00:09:45] service offices, cafes, gyms,

[00:09:47] all sorts of things like that.

[00:09:49] But tell me specifically about projects.

[00:09:51] How does it operate?

[00:09:52] What's your role there?

[00:09:53] And what kind of businesses do you have as a resident?

[00:09:56] So you've summarized co-working very nicely.

[00:10:00] And I think anybody could set up a co-working space.

[00:10:03] If you have space, it doesn't take too much to do it.

[00:10:08] It takes a lot to do it well.

[00:10:11] Running a co-working space

[00:10:13] might be relatively straightforward to set up,

[00:10:16] but it's not straightforward to do successfully

[00:10:19] or to do profitability wise

[00:10:21] and ensure that you're able to do it in a sustainable,

[00:10:24] long-term way.

[00:10:25] So much goes into curating a community

[00:10:30] and making sure that it's welcoming

[00:10:32] and that your helping businesses grow.

[00:10:35] And for us, that's what makes projects what it is.

[00:10:38] We are not just running beautiful buildings.

[00:10:41] We are helping individuals that come into our space every day

[00:10:45] feel more support, feel welcome

[00:10:49] and ensuring that they are able to show up

[00:10:53] as their best selves, do their best work.

[00:10:55] So my role at Projects is to direct the organization

[00:10:59] and look after its existing sites,

[00:11:02] but also ensure that we're growing.

[00:11:04] I worked for the organization starting out in my career

[00:11:08] and helped open the first space.

[00:11:10] Then I went and worked for a number of other providers

[00:11:13] and got experience nationally.

[00:11:16] And I've been back working in projects for a year

[00:11:18] and it feels like I'm home again.

[00:11:20] Because for me, my heart's always been

[00:11:23] within the projects community.

[00:11:25] The founder of Projects, he keeps a low profile.

[00:11:30] He just doesn't like the limelight at all.

[00:11:32] But he is a man who has run quite a few companies

[00:11:36] set up and scaled them,

[00:11:38] one of which is a property management company

[00:11:40] called Ethos.

[00:11:41] So you can look him up if you're curious

[00:11:42] and you'll find him.

[00:11:43] He wanted to find a space in the center of the city

[00:11:46] where his team could really enjoy coming to work.

[00:11:49] He wanted them to be able to walk along the beach

[00:11:51] to get here, to have lots of options for lunch,

[00:11:54] to work in a beautiful space.

[00:11:56] And he just knew that if he'd make them really happy

[00:11:59] in their workplace environment, they'd do the best work.

[00:12:02] He couldn't find the right kind of space.

[00:12:04] But he found a beautiful building on Ship Street.

[00:12:07] The one that you mentioned is

[00:12:08] it feels like a little townhouse.

[00:12:11] There's a big vault and the money

[00:12:14] that was used to build the Royal Pavilion

[00:12:16] was stored in the vault in this solicitor's office.

[00:12:19] So it's got a lovely, brightened story.

[00:12:20] So the owner of projects have found this building

[00:12:25] and purchased it knowing he wanted to put his team there

[00:12:29] and he wanted to do it up

[00:12:30] and make it absolutely perfect for them.

[00:12:32] But it was way too big.

[00:12:34] They have a team of about eight people

[00:12:37] and the building can hold a couple of hundreds.

[00:12:39] So he thought, do you know what?

[00:12:41] If I want this for my,

[00:12:42] I'm sure there are loads of other local businesses

[00:12:44] that would love to be here

[00:12:45] and it will benefit my team from being around them.

[00:12:48] So let me open this up and run it as a co-working space.

[00:12:52] So it was the first time that he'd stepped into

[00:12:55] becoming an operator of one of the spaces

[00:12:57] that he looked after.

[00:12:59] And I was so excited

[00:13:00] because I just love bringing people together.

[00:13:03] I'd studied sociology

[00:13:05] and I'd moved around quite a lot as a child

[00:13:08] and I just love people.

[00:13:09] So it was my dream job

[00:13:12] and I am so happy to be back

[00:13:15] because any other space that I worked in or visited

[00:13:17] and I'm very nosy,

[00:13:18] I'll go to co-working spaces all over the world.

[00:13:20] If I'm on holiday,

[00:13:21] I want to go visit the local co-working spaces.

[00:13:24] Obviously I'm biased

[00:13:25] but I feel like there is something very magical

[00:13:27] about projects.

[00:13:28] And I think it comes from the fact

[00:13:30] that its first customer was the person that founded it.

[00:13:34] So he knew exactly what he wanted for his team

[00:13:38] and he created something really special

[00:13:40] and considered and caring.

[00:13:42] And it comes from a place of love

[00:13:44] which I know is really cheesy

[00:13:45] but it is the truth.

[00:13:47] The types of companies that that tracks

[00:13:49] are those that also want a lifestyle

[00:13:51] that is healthy and exciting.

[00:13:56] We don't necessarily have a traditional type of industry

[00:13:59] that work from our spaces.

[00:14:02] We've got a diverse range

[00:14:03] from travel organisations

[00:14:05] that book sustainable visits around the world for people

[00:14:09] to people that run neurodiversity and inclusion training.

[00:14:13] We've got people that run incredible podcasts

[00:14:15] or have skincare brands or matcher companies.

[00:14:19] Like honestly I couldn't tell you

[00:14:20] that there's a generic project member

[00:14:23] but that's again what makes us special.

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[00:16:50] Brilliant, thank you. Take care. Speak soon.

[00:16:58] And so kind of more broadly,

[00:16:59] it feels like it's kind of not just an offer for small businesses

[00:17:06] but it's sort of shaping work.

[00:17:08] It's sort of asking questions about what work is

[00:17:12] and how we should be working.

[00:17:14] Is that too grand?

[00:17:16] Is that too macro and floaty or is there

[00:17:20] do you think there's something in that in terms of a bit of a revolution?

[00:17:24] And I'm interested in your experience of being nosy

[00:17:27] and seeing spaces around the world.

[00:17:29] I don't think using the term revolution is incorrect

[00:17:33] when it comes to the power that co-working has

[00:17:36] for the future of business, to be honest with you.

[00:17:39] I think there's so much in the fact that bigger organisations

[00:17:43] that come to co-working spaces learn from the startups

[00:17:48] or freelancers that they're around and vice versa.

[00:17:51] They learn about how to be more agile

[00:17:54] or the other way round,

[00:17:55] they learn about how to replace growth mechanisms

[00:17:58] and think about long-term sustainability.

[00:18:02] When it comes to the impact that this industry is having globally,

[00:18:06] I can speak from amazing meetup that I went to in Crete last year

[00:18:11] run by an organisation called Co-Workies.

[00:18:14] Definitely check them out if you haven't heard of them.

[00:18:16] The founder, Pauline, is absolutely amazing

[00:18:18] and she's listed, I think, around 500 co-working spaces

[00:18:21] around the world at this point.

[00:18:23] It's crazy. She's written a book about it.

[00:18:25] So as part of the first cohort where she brought together

[00:18:28] people that are leading in their industry,

[00:18:31] in the sub-workspace environment,

[00:18:33] in their organisation, in their country,

[00:18:38] they met up on an island and workshoped together for four days.

[00:18:42] It was super intense but really amazing

[00:18:44] and I met people from Romania, Bulgaria, Italy

[00:18:50] and I know that co-workers are planning to do this every year

[00:18:54] and it's so important that we talk to each other

[00:18:56] and share best practices

[00:18:58] and find out what's going on in other cities and other countries.

[00:19:02] What we're experiencing here in Brighton or here in the UK

[00:19:06] is not unique to us.

[00:19:09] Around the world, people are discovering the fact

[00:19:11] that if they want to really think about

[00:19:14] how their business can be the best it can be,

[00:19:15] they need to learn from others.

[00:19:17] You can't do that in your own office space.

[00:19:20] You need to be regularly interacting with people

[00:19:23] from different industries, people from different walks of life

[00:19:26] and the best way to do that is in a shared workspace environment

[00:19:29] and that's not just CEOs or C-suite level candidates

[00:19:33] within your team.

[00:19:34] It's everyone that can talk to each other

[00:19:37] and learn about other people's lived experiences

[00:19:41] and what they might be able to do,

[00:19:43] what can inspire them, what can support them

[00:19:46] and co-working with you that platform.

[00:19:49] And do you think that what you're doing in projects

[00:19:52] and having that diversity of business,

[00:19:54] having cleaners, accountants, charities,

[00:19:56] tech organisations, high growth businesses

[00:20:00] all rubbing up against each other

[00:20:02] and the nicest possible way.

[00:20:05] Do you think that is a really important ingredient of it?

[00:20:09] The types of spaces that curate the businesses

[00:20:12] that are within them.

[00:20:15] If they're only looking at a certain segment,

[00:20:17] then I think that there's only a certain amount of time

[00:20:20] that the businesses should stay there.

[00:20:21] So, you might really benefit from being in a similar growth stage

[00:20:27] or working in a similar industry

[00:20:30] being every day surrounded by people

[00:20:33] that are facing the same exact scenarios that you are.

[00:20:38] But I think it gets to a certain point

[00:20:39] where when you feel ready to take your business out

[00:20:41] into the wider world,

[00:20:42] you need to do that physically with your workspace as well.

[00:20:46] I also think there is a time and place for workspaces

[00:20:49] that curate a couple of different types of industries

[00:20:53] and focus on niche areas

[00:20:55] but not just one specific market segment.

[00:21:00] I think that's interesting, especially for incubators.

[00:21:03] Let's say to have for six months one type of tech company,

[00:21:09] one type, one charity, one marketing agency

[00:21:12] because I think they can all learn together.

[00:21:14] I like that.

[00:21:15] But again, it comes to a point where I think

[00:21:17] for long-term growth,

[00:21:20] you need to be around a diverse range of people and businesses

[00:21:24] because that's the real world.

[00:21:26] For us at Projects,

[00:21:27] we learn so much from our charity partners,

[00:21:31] one of which is TogetherCo,

[00:21:33] a charity which is combating loneliness in Brighton and Hove

[00:21:36] through social prescribing and befriending.

[00:21:39] And we work with them to run events and to help fundrais.

[00:21:42] And they always remind us that the CEO

[00:21:45] is absolutely amazing, April Baker.

[00:21:47] She'll say to me, right,

[00:21:49] we'd like to do this event,

[00:21:50] but what can you get out of it?

[00:21:52] Who would you like us to invite

[00:21:54] that would be beneficial to you?

[00:21:55] She's always thinking about how she can support us

[00:21:58] because she knows for her charity to grow,

[00:22:01] she's based at Projects.

[00:22:03] Projects needs to do well.

[00:22:05] She's not just thinking about what can they get

[00:22:07] and that needs to be the case

[00:22:10] for all different types of businesses.

[00:22:11] If you only think about yourself,

[00:22:12] you're going to damage those around you.

[00:22:15] Collaboration is so key when it comes to community growth

[00:22:19] but also business growth and therefore the economy.

[00:22:24] That's a good fit model in Brighton.

[00:22:26] I don't think anyone's going to probably bat an eyelid

[00:22:29] when you think, okay,

[00:22:30] there's a really ambitious charity working

[00:22:32] as part of this interesting co-working space

[00:22:35] and there's kind of mutual benefit.

[00:22:36] Those partnerships are probably slightly easier

[00:22:39] in a city like Brighton

[00:22:41] that kind of wears its activism on its sleeve

[00:22:43] as much as it does its sort of entrepreneurialism.

[00:22:46] But I wonder if what you're doing

[00:22:49] will actually the ripple effect

[00:22:51] and the domino effect will change the way

[00:22:53] all of kind of corporate real estate is imagined.

[00:22:57] Is that likely?

[00:22:58] Is that a thing that can happen?

[00:23:01] I would love to believe so.

[00:23:03] And if that were to be the case,

[00:23:06] the benefits would be immense for wider society.

[00:23:11] And we've seen the issues that come about

[00:23:14] when people don't come into work.

[00:23:16] And I'm not just talking financially on local businesses

[00:23:19] that then really struggle

[00:23:21] if they're not getting their normal trade,

[00:23:23] but also when it comes to people's social health,

[00:23:26] not coming into the workplace,

[00:23:29] even if it's literally just our coffee with someone,

[00:23:32] it's really bad for your health.

[00:23:34] There've been some amazing studies

[00:23:36] about the impact that loneliness has

[00:23:39] and it's comparatively worse

[00:23:42] than smoking quite a large number of cigarettes every day.

[00:23:45] We need to be around other people.

[00:23:47] And that doesn't mean

[00:23:48] you need to sit at your desk next to someone.

[00:23:51] In fact, if you're doing that

[00:23:52] and that person is not someone that you interact with,

[00:23:54] you are gonna feel lonely.

[00:23:56] So you need to find your community.

[00:23:58] You need to find people that want to know about you

[00:24:01] and we'll just wanna give you a hug

[00:24:03] if you've had a tough day or go for a walk with you.

[00:24:07] And they might not even need to exchange any words with you,

[00:24:10] but just someone that's gonna be by your side.

[00:24:12] And I know we're talking about something

[00:24:15] which can seem a little bit wishy-washy.

[00:24:17] However, all of these things have an impact.

[00:24:19] When people show up every day

[00:24:21] and feel like they can contribute to their work

[00:24:25] in their best way,

[00:24:27] then that's gonna make a huge impact

[00:24:29] not just on their friends, their family

[00:24:31] but their employers as well.

[00:24:33] So I think coming back to your point

[00:24:35] about what the future may be,

[00:24:37] I'm hopeful that landlords will see the benefits

[00:24:41] of working with organization like ours

[00:24:43] and whether it's the B Corp stamp

[00:24:45] which just helps them to understand initially

[00:24:49] what the benefits might be to them to work

[00:24:51] with a company like ours

[00:24:52] as opposed to an organization that's just gonna pay

[00:24:54] to rent out one whole floor

[00:24:56] for potentially more money than we're gonna pay.

[00:24:59] We can all think about someone in our lives that's lonely

[00:25:03] or we can think about a time where we showed up at work

[00:25:07] and we just didn't really feel

[00:25:09] like anybody genuinely cared about how we were.

[00:25:11] And I think it's about understanding

[00:25:13] that if we can create spaces where people feel welcome,

[00:25:17] included, safe,

[00:25:20] then the impact is gonna really massively outweigh

[00:25:24] just a few extra pounds each month on rent.

[00:25:26] So I think we've got a long way to go

[00:25:29] but I think there's a possibility

[00:25:31] that there is change that can be very widespread

[00:25:34] and that people that have funds

[00:25:37] to be part of the key decision-making

[00:25:40] might actually start to understand

[00:25:42] the benefits that we're talking about.

[00:25:45] And when a new space is developed,

[00:25:50] and I say this from having witnessed,

[00:25:52] I think some failures in the past

[00:25:55] and I know of projects that have happened

[00:25:58] and actually my team have been asked

[00:26:00] to do some feasibility studies around

[00:26:03] the kind of renovation of existing buildings

[00:26:06] and with an option being

[00:26:08] or could we turn this into a creative industries,

[00:26:11] blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:12] And we've looked at what's around it.

[00:26:15] You know, the building's one thing

[00:26:17] and you could put a million quid in and turn it

[00:26:19] into some shiny interesting space.

[00:26:21] But what we've concluded in some instances,

[00:26:24] well, if you've got no nice places to eat or drink,

[00:26:27] the transport doesn't work.

[00:26:28] The, you know, there's no world around this space.

[00:26:32] It's not as simple as just build it and they will come.

[00:26:36] But that was a few years ago.

[00:26:38] And I wonder what's the decision-making process

[00:26:41] when thinking about a new space?

[00:26:43] Does the, there need to be a bit of a community there already?

[00:26:46] Is it, does there need to be a sort of a spark

[00:26:50] that's already lit so that when you open it and sell

[00:26:53] and invite people in, that feels already quite familiar

[00:26:59] or these days can you take a punt

[00:27:02] and put it somewhere rural or somewhere

[00:27:05] where there is no strong history

[00:27:09] of kind of startup culture

[00:27:11] and then create an extraordinary space

[00:27:13] that people are then willing to travel into.

[00:27:17] I'm fascinated about the sort of the economic planning

[00:27:21] around that and whether that's changing or not,

[00:27:26] you know, do you have any views on that?

[00:27:28] I think you can open a space

[00:27:30] in a place that hasn't had a great community to date

[00:27:33] but you can't do that

[00:27:35] and expect an amazing community to form naturally.

[00:27:39] That might happen by chance

[00:27:41] but you're much better off investing

[00:27:43] in establishing a community

[00:27:45] whilst you're also setting up the space

[00:27:46] and ideally before so that you can invite them there.

[00:27:49] Founding members really make a space

[00:27:52] so you can have a huge impact if you hand pick

[00:27:55] a few key people that are going to join you

[00:27:59] once your space is open

[00:28:01] because they'll be the ones

[00:28:02] that people end up sitting next to.

[00:28:03] Okay, yes, your team can sit around co-workers

[00:28:06] or in whatever scenario you're talking about here.

[00:28:09] You can be around to make sure

[00:28:11] that the people that frequent your space

[00:28:14] are beginning to feel like part of a community

[00:28:16] and they're not sat on their own

[00:28:18] but it's much more effective if you pick people

[00:28:20] that you know are going to be advocates for you

[00:28:25] and celebrate your successes and welcome people in.

[00:28:28] So that's something which is really imperative.

[00:28:31] Also, you talked about food and drink options.

[00:28:34] People do care about having a nice cup of coffee

[00:28:37] or being able to order lunch on delivery or pop out.

[00:28:40] You can do that with a good coffee machine

[00:28:42] and maybe some local lunch partnerships.

[00:28:46] It doesn't necessarily need to be

[00:28:48] that you are in the center of a city

[00:28:51] but you do need to think about

[00:28:52] how people are going to get access to nice food and drink.

[00:28:55] What's your future in all of this?

[00:28:57] What are you excited about where your journey can go?

[00:28:59] I mean, you are director of these two great spaces in Brighton.

[00:29:05] You've got expansion plans to open up new spaces.

[00:29:09] You know, you are incredibly young

[00:29:11] and have the whole world in front of you.

[00:29:14] You could be a real pioneer in this industry

[00:29:16] because you've got such well-formed idea.

[00:29:18] You know, it's really interesting how you approach this.

[00:29:21] Where do you want to go?

[00:29:22] What do you see you doing in 20, 30, 40 years

[00:29:24] in this industry if you're still in it?

[00:29:26] Thank you.

[00:29:27] I am super excited about what the future could entail.

[00:29:32] As I told you before we were recording,

[00:29:35] I'm doing an MBA at Imperial

[00:29:37] and will be learning much more about business

[00:29:41] than I have from trial and error.

[00:29:44] I'll actually be learning the academia

[00:29:46] behind growth plans and acquisitions

[00:29:49] and all that fun stuff.

[00:29:50] I'm doing a lot of algebra at the moment

[00:29:52] which is interesting and I have to say age 27,

[00:29:55] I didn't think I'd be spending my disposable income

[00:29:57] on maths tutoring but here we are

[00:30:00] and I think it's a worthwhile investment.

[00:30:02] So I'm really dedicated to making sure

[00:30:05] that I don't just use what I'm learning as the cap

[00:30:11] on my progression I want to learn from people globally

[00:30:15] and from experts.

[00:30:17] Where I see my future, I haven't thought about 30, 40 years

[00:30:21] but what I would say is for the next few years

[00:30:25] I want to make sure that we're bringing the best of Brighton

[00:30:27] to other parts of the UK

[00:30:29] and the best of the other parts of the UK to Brighton

[00:30:31] and I think that I can play a role in doing that.

[00:30:34] But it's also about ensuring that in Brighton

[00:30:37] we're connecting our businesses with people

[00:30:40] all around the world that can help them grow

[00:30:43] whilst nurturing them in the way

[00:30:45] that they expect from us as well.

[00:30:47] We're not, growth isn't everything

[00:30:49] it doesn't necessarily need to be financial growth

[00:30:51] it can be team development or partnership

[00:30:54] that they're able to establish

[00:30:56] but we want to make sure that our projects

[00:30:57] we're enabling our companies and local community

[00:31:02] to develop in the ways that they want to.

[00:31:06] I don't know if you've heard this stat

[00:31:08] but I've heard that 77% of people say

[00:31:11] that their overall purpose in life

[00:31:13] comes from what they're doing at work.

[00:31:16] So ensuring that you are able to feel

[00:31:19] like you're contributing to a positive impact

[00:31:22] is so important not just between the hours of nine to five

[00:31:24] but just in every second of your life.

[00:31:29] The big conversation that's used the word revolution again

[00:31:32] around what work can be is long overdue

[00:31:36] and really exciting but it's spaces like yours

[00:31:38] I think that are continually challenging

[00:31:40] and asking questions about that in really interesting ways.

[00:31:44] Alex thank you so much for being on The Possibility Club

[00:31:46] it's been a pleasure.

[00:31:48] It's been a pleasure, thank you for having me.

[00:31:52] Thank you for listening to

[00:31:54] The Possibility Club Practical Bravery.

[00:31:57] If you enjoyed this episode do like, share, review

[00:32:00] tell everybody about it look in the show notes

[00:32:02] for all the details of today's guest

[00:32:04] stuff we talked about stuff that's of interest

[00:32:07] new things to read new things to listen to

[00:32:09] and if you are running a business or a charity

[00:32:13] and you are trying to accelerate

[00:32:16] or improve the impact that you have in the world

[00:32:19] if you want to be famous for what you do

[00:32:21] and what you change rather than just what you sell

[00:32:25] then talk to us

[00:32:27] alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:32:29] We wanna hear from you, we wanna talk to you

[00:32:31] we wanna amplify and elevate your ideas

[00:32:33] and who knows we might be able to help you

[00:32:35] feel more confident and clear about what's next

[00:32:39] alwayspossible.co.uk

[00:32:41] We'll be back in a couple of weeks

[00:32:42] with a new special guest

[00:32:44] and a new insight on practical bravery in action.

[00:32:48] The Possibility Club is an always possible podcast

[00:32:52] the interviewer was Richard Freeman for Always Possible

[00:32:55] and the producer and editor was me

[00:32:57] Kristoff Tracey for Lo-Fi Arts

[00:32:59] Have a good week.

[00:33:03] alwayspossible.co.uk